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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.11.20 11:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL/DR: spreadsheet No passives skill tree
I think nearly everyone agrees that this game is too tough on new players. This is part of the reason the game's player base doesn't grow.
There are many factors that contribute to this problem:
I have previously made a thread about helping new players with progression and fitting: New player fitting and progression.
Several people have posted threads recently about the possibility of restricting gear use in pub matches, or creating more new player friendly game modes. Gear disparity exacerbates the divide between good/veteran players and new players.
Other issues include the poor state of basic frames and the combat bonus provided by the war barge.
This thread is about another major factor in poor NPE, passive skills.
The advantages high sp characters have over new players is huge. It's not just access to better gear, but the passive bonuses to fighting provided by skill bonuses.
Major culprits include the +25% base hp gained from shield and armour skills, and the +15% damage to shields or armour from weapon proficiency. However there are many other minor skills such as module efficiencies and base sprint speed, that all add up to a major advantage.
The concept of the Eve universe that we exist in and that Dust is designed around, is that we are not all equal. People can have advantages, but they have to pay isk to get it. This is the concept of "Risk vs Reward". The crucial elements of power are cooperation and wealth.
The passive skills break this concept, as these skills give you advantages at no extra cost. Spending an extra 40K isk for a proto weapon for an extra 10% damage is fine. Getting 15% more armour damage from proficiency absolutely free is not fine.
I propose rewriting the skill tree to remove bonuses that passively increase the people's direct combat power on the battlefield, without them having to pay extra for it.
Fitting skills are ok, as to take advantage of them you need to spend isk on better gear. Advantages are fine, so long as you pay for them. This is essential for risk vs reward.
Here is a look at what part of such a skill tree might look like: No passives skill tree
Essentially I have reduced the current fitting skills and replaced the passive efficiency, hp and damage bonuses with the fitting reductions removed from the fitting skills. The effect of this should be, that a character with max skills should see no difference to their fittings.
The passive skills I have removed would have to be given to the base stats of the dropouts, weapons and modules, to retain functionality and game balance. Several game mechanics don't really work without these increased stats. For example, scanning and dampening wouldn't work without the +50% scan range and -10% profile and precision. Just add them to the base stats.
Extra weapon bonuses like sharpshooter and rapid reload, I don't really know what to do with. Perhaps as these are more "soft skills" rather than directly increasing hp, speed or damage, they should just stay as they are. Maybe reduced in value a little.
I haven't looked at dropsuit skills. These may be more difficult to replace. I wanted to try to give as much of a per level bonus as I could so that the level 2 and 4 skills aren't worthless. Many dropsuit skills are fitting reductions. Perhaps that's the way to go. I think even if only the weapon and upgrade skill tree passives were removed, leaving the dropsuit skills, this would be a big improvement. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 17:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garcon lyfe wrote:Hahah no.....you mus not play eve because they get all the same advantages on their over new players, Limit gear an call it good, and f you call me one of the proto stompers i swear to god, i have to play losing matches time and time again and i put ******* tons of hours to max the **** out! Just reduce the multiplier on the skills so they are easier for new players to max out.
It doesn't matter that they get advantages in Eve. It doesn't make it a good system in Dust. We can have meaningful progression without handing our major advantages that you don't have to pay any isk for. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 12:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:This is a stopgap solution that doesn't address things that could balance out the OP's statement.
While I agree with Valroth's permise, I disagree on the solution.
Here's hoping we can see something workable soon.
What is it about the idea you don't like? Anyone have any alternative suggestions?
I wanted to remove the passive bonuses without removing the progression. I remember that as a new player I really enjoyed the fact that I was constantly able to upgrade my suits as I invested skills. I've tried to maintain that fun progression with the fitting cost reductions per level. As I said, overall it would turn out that you could fit exactly what you can fit now on your suits if you had max skills. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 14:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:militia gear only gamemode.
it would literally be all i'd ever play.
ever. and i have tons of sp.
but i wouldn't give a crap.
because any mlt vs mlt combat has always been the funnest things in dust.
No reason we can't have multiple things to help new players at the same time. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.11.21 16:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I was to play devil's advocate and shoot holes in my own idea, I would say the problems may be:
1) Progression based solely on fitting without any base stat improvements may not be as compelling as we have now.
2) Knowledge and experience of the game will always trump stat disparity. So veteran mercs will always have a large advantage, making gear and skill changes a bit futile. |
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